Bowls a dying sport...?

[spark11]

With many clubs losing members hand over fist and with the constant question of how we can generate more members and the next generation of bowlers often the debate of a post match feed on a Saturday afternoon, the question needs to be asked are the bodies really accommodating enough and moving with the times? With dates being set for a reason, and it's obviously understandable this needs to be the case to ensure that all ties, international fixtures, league games etc to be fitted in there surely needs to be flexibility when both parties agree a tie can be played after the closing date and then doesn't hinder the following round? The question then needs to be asked why, young/any bowlers would seek to continue playing and joining their respective clubs within the pgl when such decisions are made to expel a competitor from such competitions.

[chief]

Just hearing about this now. What an absolute joke ! You play your heart out, beat players that others give you no chance to beat, travel during the week to play games, arrange food etc and for what ? If there cannot be a bit of give & take, especially at this late stage in the Competition when there is plenty of time to get games played, then I agree 100% with what has been said above. Are we trying to promote the game and look after each other in making sure that we enjoy the sport, or are we going to let others chase people away over things that can be re-arranged for the good of the game. This action will leave a very sour taste in the mouth of many at our club, especially as it's not very often that some of our players get to such a late stage in PGL Competitions, no disrespect to any of our players, but that is fact.

[thegovner]

Rules are rules at the end of the day but what a joke lol the pgl have done it again stand up and take a bow lol !
Interesting if it had have been a better known name haveing to rearrange would the rules be bent to accommodate such players
I'm sure in the past !
Both players in the singles have said it could be sorted out but where told if its not played your out lol still laughing !
After all the comp dates where out late this year its NO fault of any bowler if something already arranaged clashes with a tie !!
Just my opinion !

[santa2012]

Anyone care to expand what happened??

[thegovner]

Young M McKenna is to play D Witherspoon in the last 8 of the singles and as far as I'm awear Mckenna is away and will not be back to play his tie on Monday night
(but I think D Witherspoon said he'd play when he's back)
so it was brought up at a meeting last night and it was said if he's not there to play he's out basically !
So if the two that haven't played their tie yet to get to the last 8 this must mean that T Rainy from (OB) is through to the last 4 ??

[djlavo]

What a joke. They need to hang there heads in shame

[garethbell]

Although this decision may seem unfair, did the Committee really have any other choice. This rule has been in existence for the (almost)thirty years I have been playing PGL bowls and just as recently as last year I had to concede a triples tie because of holiday commitments. There have been scores of others (some at the S-F stage) who have similarly had to concede ties. If it were just left to the players then there would be chaos getting ties played. I guess many of us never think we'll still be in these competitions at this time of the year when we are booking our holidays.

My one complaint is that, this year, the dates were not fixed at the start of the year i.e. many were "tbc" and some were changed (e.g. rinks) at the last minute after competitors had already planned their life around the published competition dates.

If bowlers want the rules amended then they have to put forward the NoMs but until then surely established rules must be adhered to, otherwise precedents will be set which will make it impossible to administer the competitions.

[Bryan]

Thank you Gareth for bringing a bit of perspective into this debate.

There was only one decision the PGL General Purposes Committee could make about this tie as one of the competitors is apparently away on holiday on the date that the final game of qualifying was due to be played. I must emphasise.. the person on holiday has NOT yet been thrown out of the competition - IF they are not on the green on Monday, yes, then the decision will be taken to give their opponent a walkover.

The dates for the Championships have been available BEFORE the competition started and there was plenty of time for the person on holiday to realise they were not going to be able to play their tie on the given date - it's too late to ask questions AFTER the match. A phone call earlier to the Competitions Secretary would have clarified this situation to the competitor and given them the choice IF they wanted to withdraw from the competition BEFORE giving someone a bye at this late stage.

There have been SEVERAL cases of exactly the same thing happening in previous years where a match has not been able to be played on the last date and one of the competitors has got a bye into the semis - it DOESNT matter if you are "a better known name" or not - the rules are the same for everyone. The year BEFORE I won the Triples title twice in a row, as it turns out, I was basically denied a chance of a hat trick (although obviously I didnt know that at the time!) as the quarter final round tie (the last qualifying round before the "whites") was pushed back into July due to bad weather. In the initial dates the competition was due to finish in late June, but a round was lost to inclement weather and the last game was therefore pushed back into july. Two of my triple had booked holidays from 1st JUly and when our opponents refused (or couldnt?) bring the game FORWARD we were dismissed from the competition for not being able to play on the date given. Hard to accept - but it was the rule and unfortunately I had no valid argument to appeal that. Holidays do NOT count as an exceptional circumstance - and still dont. Maybe my Triple were not a "better known name" but exactly the same thing happened to Jim Baker's Four just 2 or 3 years ago when they were unable to get agreement to bring the game FORWARD and because they couldnt play on the date they also were thrown out at the quarter final stage. Therefore I sympathise with this Singles tie - but there is NO excuse for not knowing the rules or thinking they can be changed just to suit an individual - do that and the competition descends into farce.

From my understanding there was NO agreement by this person's opponent to play the match outside the date - a tentative acceptance to HAVE to play was agreed as he was WRONGLY informed that the Competition Secretary had agreed to let the game be played later. A phone call to the League Secretary showed that this was NOT an option - and was then referred to the PGL GP Committee for ratification.

I understand (having as I said previously, been through this myself) but at the end of the day the players cannot just organise dates "by agreement" amongst themselves - otherwise why have any dates at all - or any rules at all. The PGL calendar is undoubtedly very cluttered and I do think a Competions Committee needs to be formed by the PGL and their first task should be to try to find a way to spread the load and have events running into July where there is next to no bowls at all. People can enter/not enter competitions then based on knowing ahead of time when they may be planning their holidays. As a POSSIBLE suggestion, for example... why not play next year the SINGLES every Monday night from the end of April to end of May and the PAIRS on the Fridays during the same period. THat would get those 2 big competitions to the squarters or semis by that stage.THen during June on Monday play the FOURS and on Fridays the TRIPLES. THis would free up at least every other Tuesday night and THursdays if the PGL Cup started later - to bring ties forward or even have a welcome night off! The SEnior Fours, Under 18 and Under 25 competitions could be played during late JUne/early JUly to spread the load a bit. Its only a POSSIBLE suggestion!

Finally, if Cliftonville do feel agrieved about this PGL decision then I suggest they put forward an acceptable NOM to the AGM to change the rules somehow to allow people to go away on holiday or arrange games anmongst themselves outside given dates. Failing that, I'm sorry, the rules have to be accepted as they are - like them or not!

[simon1908]

You got there just before me Bryan. read the topic last night but thought i'd leave it for a bit before rep[lying.

Having read through the above posts on this topic I am at pains to work out why some people think the PGL have made ‘an absolute joke’ of a decision. As Gareth has mentioned had they really a choice. He isn’t the only person to be eliminated this year and that was for something more important than a holiday.

I appreciate some of the points about dates not being on the PGL timetable at the time of making entries but over the years, these dates do not generally change much. May and June is a nightmare for bowls, especially if you do get a run in PG competition(s) so fitting in a holiday during those two months is never easy.

To my understanding Mark McKenna is on holiday from Tuesday 17th June and will be away over the quarter final ‘played by’ date. The fact that Mark was leaving for holiday the morning after his 5th round victory meant he had no chance of completing a quarter final tie before he left which although being unfortunate is something that he would have known as soon as he won his 4th round game on Friday 6th June.

Having won his 5th round game against Terry Crawford, it didn’t take a lot of time for the player / Cliftonville club to get in contact with PGL officials regarding an extension.

A few questions spring to mind –

Why didn’t Mark or a Cliftonville representative contact the PGL prior to his 5th round game to seek clarification on his options if he did win? If he / they had of done I’m pretty sure he would have got the same answer from the PGL, thus allowing him to try and sort something or give Terry Crawford a bye.

What efforts did the player make to bring his 5th round game forward? I am asking this questioon because there could have been a possibility that after Mark winning his 4th round game on Friday 6th June, he could fairly quickly have found out his next round opponent and made an arrangement to play this game at the start of the following week. If successful, he could then have made an approach to Robinson / Witherspoon to see if they could play their game early to accommodate him, meaning a quarter final tie could have been played on the 5th round date. Did this happen? As I say possibly a long shot, but certainly one that’s worth taking a punt on.

If he didn’t make an effort to bring this game forward, why not?

If Mark had been on holiday over the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounds of this Championship would the PGL have granted an extension? Going on the rule that has been in existence over the years I would imagine no, so why should they grant one now. The fact that the semi finals are not due until the end of July should have no bearing.

I understand it may be a bitter pill to swallow for the young man but he isn’t the first PGL player nor will he be the last PGL player to be eliminated from a competition or have to concede a tie because of being on holidays. By all means, if there is a genuine reason for the PGL granting an extension then fair enough, but in my opinion a holiday should never be one of them.

[ballymenahey]

Lot of hysterical overreaction on here to this situation. If simons information above is accurate, the match v's T Crawford should have been conceded - That would have been the decent thing to do

[santa2012]

Bryan, SWAMPIES have fixed nights for singles (Thursday) pairs (Monday) and trips (Tuesday) so everyone can work out when they are due to play. June is obviously the quarter finals month so players have to deal with the possibility of reaching that stage when considering going on holiday. And of course you can't get a sub in the singles!!!!!!:-) :-) :-)

[sloaner]

Surely Simon Cavan being kicked out because his daughter was born on the same day is a much more contentious decision. If that isnt an exceptional circumstance im not sure what is......

[ballymenahey]

Does the rule allow for 'exceptional circumstances'? - I'd doubt it. Maybe that's what is needed going forward, a rule amendment to allow the decision makers some discretion. That in itself could create problems though i.e. does an urgent work committment outweigh a family illness/ car break-down/ birth/death etc etc ??

[Bryan]

I have read through the rules carefully governing the PGL Championships on page 96 of the current IBA Yearbook. There is NO mention of "exceptional circumstances" and only that the competitors have the option of a protest or appeal of an issue to the GP Committee whose decision is FINAL.

Again, this is where I think a Competitions Committee could deal with this much quicker and more efficiently than having to convene a full GP meeting for every appeal or protest!?

I agree totally Ballymenahey about what constitutes an "exceptional circumstance" in the first place. It's certainly hard to define, but I think perhaps where "compassion" could be shown to a competitor regarding a family bereavement etc. Beyond that - perhaps a list of "exceptional circumstances" needs to be drawn up - but I don't believe a holiday is, or should ever, be put in that same bracket. THat is a conscious decision by any competitor - at the end of the day bowls is only a game - not life or death - and a holiday is important with family. If that conflicts with bowls - i'm sorry, that's not a nice position maybe to be in for the very competitive or successful bowlers, but in my opinion family comes first. Just have respect for your opponents, though, if you KNOW you can't complete a tie at a later date and either dont enter the competition or withdraw before the final round. Of course you don't HAVE to - it's your right to compete and knock out anyone you can - but this is where I feel a bit of etiquette or respect for your opponent comes into play.

[teatime]

The pgl rules are clear , dates are available for everyone to see. i am going on my holidays which covers the late rounds of pgl competitions therefor I took the realistic step of not entering any of the competitions what would the sense be in that. Gareth and Bryan are quite correct the rules are there no excuse like going on holiday can be put forward the draw dates are clear and common sense must prevail.  I know in a earlier round some Ty's were postponed due to a family member bereavement which was the correct and proper course of action to be taken.  Yes young Crawford should have been put through. Now we have the stupid situation of a w/o. Now that's good for the game.