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Post by teatime on Jun 29, 2014 13:04:12 GMT
I have been watching the scores and results coming in over this weekend fearing the worst but hoping for the best, I never thought the outcome would have been so disappointing. can someone please tell me how, after this outcome, that anyone ever expected anything else. The set up of basically overloading rinks with back end bowlers very rarely works.I can not understand that it's like putting 10 center forwards in one team. We need players who can hold their positions on a team (ie front end bowlers) surely we must have good enough front end bowlers to fill those positions. I have personally played with and against front Enders who are playing well week in and week out. Time for change now and not waiting to the same things happen again next year. I'll not hold my breath on that one.
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Post by teatime on Jun 29, 2014 14:26:09 GMT
Just thought that I would put a bit more detail regarding front end bowlers. If you go to any of the clubs that iambic about to mention and have a look you will surely see exactly what I mean, I'll not mention individual players names because that would be unfair....larne, pickie,dunbarton, cliftonville , forth river, the list goes on.
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Post by holland1978 on Jun 29, 2014 16:38:42 GMT
I think personally, there should have been more NIBA bowlers, on the team. They won senior inter association, very convincingly. The rink who did very badly over the series, accept for the skip, were all PGL bowlers, they had a shot average of minus 58 shots, simply not good enough.
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Post by chrisallan on Jun 30, 2014 12:28:42 GMT
I think personally, there should have been more NIBA bowlers, on the team. They won senior inter association, very convincingly. The rink who did very badly over the series, accept for the skip, were all PGL bowlers, they had a shot average of minus 58 shots, simply not good enough. I'm not convinced putting the blame on a poor series on the three pgl players within one rink is fair. Maybe there should have been more NIBA players picked maybe not. What isn't in question is the quality of all the players selected irrespective of what Association they are from. Maybe it was how the team was structured that was the problem? Should there be more players selected who play front end at club and association level? In my honest opinion apart from.possibly leads a skip can play anywhere. It really is about getting the best out of the players. That is totally down to how the rinks are formulated ensuring personalities and playing styles compliment each other. |
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Post by sammya on Jun 30, 2014 15:35:24 GMT
The problem with Ireland has always been about quotas from the four associations,its get payers on no matter where they play at all costs.
if players are skipping every week and deemed good enough for Ireland then let them skip or at the very least play third. :'(England, Scotland and Wales
dont have that problem they try to pick the best players in ALL positions. the argument that if he skips for his club he should be able to play anywhere is rubbish.
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Post by teatime on Jun 30, 2014 19:10:13 GMT
Well said sammyA,at long last a person who actually knows how it should be done. If quotas ( certain amount of players to keep each association happy) are more important than picking a competitive team then this can be no longer acceptable. Personally I don't care if our pgl or Irish team are chosen from 1club the most important thing is,and this is a must, the best bowlers in their positions have to be selected. It is patently obvious that overloading rinks just does not work. Too many cooks comes to mind.
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Post by chrisallan on Jun 30, 2014 20:43:03 GMT
SammyA in an ideal world ofcourse thats the case but in reality that just isn't going to happen. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded and has been listening to Alan Hanson too much! The luxury isn't there. Where are these leads and seconds who are better?
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Post by teatime on Jun 30, 2014 21:05:53 GMT
The answer to the luxury isn't there is it's certainly missing at present.
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Post by santa2012 on Jun 30, 2014 21:54:01 GMT
Chris
Cannot let your comment go unanswered.
Skips cannot play anywhere, would b brilliant if they could.
Having watched series we need to have guys who regularly draw to jacks.
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Post by teatime on Jun 30, 2014 22:13:29 GMT
Chris what is the alternative? Keeping things as they are and hope the other 3 associations along with England, Scotland and Wales deteriorate , I don't think many people can see that happening can you, or maybe we can try something different to try and close that gap. Our selectors have an unbelievable job and no one is criticising them and they can not travel round every game so let's move a bit of the burden onto our clubs, why not ask our clubs to put forward names of players that are playing consistently well to our selectors , maybe you see a player from a opposing team playing well then pass their name on. A preliminary trial could maybe help. We all want our teams to do well so let's be positive .
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Post by sammya on Jun 30, 2014 22:25:37 GMT
The answer to the luxury isn't there is it's certainly missing at present. Chris did you actually check the results? the only positive that came out of it was a rink with two new caps on it, one lead and one third and getting 3 ups! new blood and success we just need a little more of it.  |
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Post by Bryan on Jun 30, 2014 22:48:02 GMT
I can give you 2 leads from the same Club.... neither of which has yet been given an opportunity to play for the PGL at Senior level.... but I respectfully KNOW they would be superb leads on the International team... (I have yet to see either play a poor game in that position at Club level or Under 25 level - and I know the Club concerned rates them very highly... .) They should be immediately onto the PGL Senior team as dedicated LEADS.. a position which requires a specialist to play there) They are good enough for not just the PGL - this is where selectors need to get out amongst the "other" Clubs and see the talent available and give these young bowlers an opportunity.
How can we expect an INTERNATIONAL skip to not have one of the most important bullets in his armoury when he steps onto the green if he doesnt have a specialist LEAD. Being able to throw the jack a set distance and lead close to it is NOT a job for someone who normally plays at skip... let's waken up here!!
My POV will make interesting reading this week...... no doubt I'll not be very popular... but I'll call things as I see them......
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Post by teatime on Jul 1, 2014 7:57:34 GMT
Bryan spot in again. The set up needs changed. After the 1st Irish result on Saturday we had a league game the comments I heard ranged from ,;what did you expect to I couldn't care less , and believe it or not one of the comments were , too many skips playing. Now that's what PGL members are saying. it does not matter what age anyone is if someone is playing we'll pick them , it's not rocket science and if that means others are left out so be it .too many skips FACT.
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Post by santa2012 on Jul 2, 2014 15:11:41 GMT
Dear Doc
Don't know what PG club you play for but may I suggest that when you send your representative to the next PG or IBA meeting that they raise the issues you have remarked upon.
If more clubs were proactive and discuss these issues then action may be forthcoming.
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Post by chrisallan on Jul 2, 2014 21:12:13 GMT
I agree there are too many skips. That's not in question but the problem lies far deeper than what has been talked but here. Has anyone actually thought how a bowler evolves in their career especially the talented ones? The talented ones being those players whom you can tell immediately are natural and have something.
It depends on the club where they begin but in most cases especially in smaller clubs they may spend one season lead or second before being thrown in to playing third with skip only being a season down the line. At a bigger club the journey is similar but takes longer during which time they will certainly avail of junior interassociation selection. The player at the lower club will need to do that bit more to get recognition.
The natural desire and migration is to play back end. Only a few decide to play at lead ie Paul Daley, Steven Shields, Mark Mcpeake to name a few.
I may be mistaken but I have never came across a player who has decided to make second their position. Normally the players who play second are either younger/inexperienced bowlers, back end player's who have dropped back, veteran back end players or maybe the weaker players on a team.
What needs to happen in the game is that the importance of the front end positions needs to recognised and that there is an opportunity to progress there.
Steven Shields came through at Ballymena and from early on his leading talent was clear to see. Within a very short time he has succeeded in cementing his place as a senior international not to mention winning titles in that position.
That wouldn't have happened had he joined a smaller club. He is obviously gifted but would have no doubt found himself at the rear of the rink.
I have played with and against a talented young player this season who in my opinion would be a superb second and could easily specialise in that role. But he is on the same journey as the majority of the players of recent years with skipping I'm sure his eventual destination.
This is why the game is saturated with back end player's as shown when you look at inter association and the international panel.
They are the best bowlers and are deemed good enough to adapt to a different position on a rink. Yes, square peg round hole scenario but that is what happens when there are not alot of round ones.
Until the mindset changes that will always be the case in the main.
I'm.not saying it is right but in my eyes it is the way it is!
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